Author Topic: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?  (Read 1058 times)

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Offline voodoo

Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« on: November 03, 2017, 02:57:35 AM »
Hi,

attached is a screen shot from YEM. According to the manual, there should be menu entries

* Create Genos custom normal voice
* Create Genos custom drum voice

but they do not appear. Can anybody try this?

Uli
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 02:59:08 AM by voodoo »
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 02:58:46 AM »
YEM 2.5 brings the UVF files for many Genos voices to enable voice preset editing. So it should work....
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline jsb1999

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2017, 05:34:23 AM »
I see 'Create Genos Custom Normal Voice' and 'Create Genos Custom Drum Voice' where you see 'Create Tyros 5 Custom Voice' etc.
I only have a Genos installed and connected.
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2017, 05:47:26 AM »
Thanks for trying and reporting.  :)
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline pjd

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2017, 06:29:07 AM »
I see 'Create Genos Custom Normal Voice' and 'Create Genos Custom Drum Voice' where you see 'Create Tyros 5 Custom Voice' etc.
I only have a Genos installed and connected.

Thanks. That makes sense. YEM needs to know which preset UVFs to pick up, Genos or Tyros 5

C:\Program Files (x86)\YAMAHA\Expansion Manager\voices

Bizarre as it may seem, the Genos could have a whole different waveform number assignment than Tyros 5. That would require a whole separate set of UVFs for the preset voices.

-- pj

P.S. I'm still way behind on trying YEM. Too much to do... Ableton Live 10 dropped yesterday.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 06:30:12 AM by pjd »
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2017, 06:49:52 AM »
Bizarre as it may seem, the Genos could have a whole different waveform number assignment than Tyros 5. That would require a whole separate set of UVFs for the preset voices.

Yes, it has. There are separate folders for Tyros 5 (1678 files) and Genos (1783 files).

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline jsb1999

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 02:35:57 PM »
So whatever happened to the 'Kit Edit' function we had on Tyros 4, which let us create and save our own edited drum kits?
Was it not carried forward to the Tyros 5?
On the Genos, we can do a lot of editing with the Drum Setup function in the Style Editor, but it appears we can only save the edits as part of a style, not as a drum kit. 
If I want to use the edited drums with another style I seem to have to do the edits all over again.  Am I missing something?
 

Offline Marcus

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2017, 09:11:54 PM »
So whatever happened to the 'Kit Edit' function we had on Tyros 4, which let us create and save our own edited drum kits?
Was it not carried forward to the Tyros 5?
On the Genos, we can do a lot of editing with the Drum Setup function in the Style Editor, but it appears we can only save the edits as part of a style, not as a drum kit. 
If I want to use the edited drums with another style I seem to have to do the edits all over again.  Am I missing something?

You are able to create or edit a drum kit through the YEM. Better to have a Genos connected in USB-Storage Mode to hear the edits through the Genos. I don't have a Genos yet, but updated my Tyros 5 YEM to the 2.5 version. It also appears that a Genos must be connected to the YEM for the "Create Genos Custom Drum Kit" menu to come up. I am like Uli, I don't see it, I get only the "Create Tyros 5 Custom Voice/Drum Kit" menu. However, to answer your question you can create or edit a drum kit on both a Genos and a Tyros 5, as in my examples below.

In the YEM, first I highlight "My Packs" and create a new Pack folder.



In my example, I created "Pack 004", which in turn I highlight. In the lower window of the YEM, I "Create Tyros 5 Custom Drum Kit" from the menu. A list appears in a window where you choose what Drum Kit voice you want to edit. I chose Real Drums in my example. Again strange the Genos selection didn't show in the menu, but I don't have my Genos yet to connect.



I then highlight the "Real Drums" voice inside the "Pack 004", and from the menu I select, "edit".



Then the "edit" interface comes up and you can edit and save the drum kit and load it back to the Tyros 5, or in the case of the Genos, edit the Genos drum kits and save it back to a Genos.



Marcus

Gear: Triangle
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 06:09:48 AM »
The Genos Drum Setup will let you edit the drum directly in keyboard. After you made those editing steps and you saved the style (and you like it), go to YEM and put your work again there... after you made some of kits there or voices, build the pack and install it in your Genos. In this way you have the drum set made by you on Genos and also saved as a drum kit in YEM. Disadvantage, you work something like 2 times. First time, when you have to find best setup for new drum kit it will take a longer time. After that is simple in Yem, you only have to copy the parameters from Genos into YEM.

Regards.

PS: the advantage of YEM is you can alter a preset drum kit with custom wav files, but in Drum Setup, if you have a preset kit in style you can alterate only with other preset kits, not with custom kits elements. In Drum Setup, if you have a Custom kit you cannot edit anymore.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 06:13:14 AM by valimaties »
______________________________________________
Vali Matieş - Genos
 

Offline jsb1999

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 06:24:08 AM »
Unfortunately, YEM 2.5 does not give you access to the new Revo Drums voices. Which seriously limits is usefulness.

(To be clear, I love the Genos. It is just a couple of tweaks away from true awesomeness.)
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 06:28:10 AM »
Unfortunately, YEM 2.5 does not give you access to the new Revo Drums voices. Which seriously limits is usefulness.

(To be clear, I love the Genos. It is just a couple of tweaks away from true awesomeness.)

Do you have access in YEM to SA voices?! Revo Drums are something like SA ;) it contains wave cycling, I think this feature is used only by Yamaha, not by users :)
______________________________________________
Vali Matieş - Genos
 

Offline jsb1999

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2017, 07:17:15 AM »
No, SA voices are also not available via YEM 2.5. (For example, the only entry under Pianos is Grand Harpsichord)

I am not interested in swapping out wave files and other fancy stuff (which might expose Yamaha proprietary info). 
The Drum Setup functionality is perfect for my needs: 'the Snare is a little too loud', 'turn down that Christmas jingle sound', etc.
I just want to save my edits as a User Drum Kit as was possible in Tyros 4.
I assume what needs to be saved would be pointers to wave files, voicing parameters, etc - no actual wave files or proprietary information.
I don't think Yamaha would be exposing any protected stuff by allowing it.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 09:16:22 AM by jsb1999 »
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2017, 07:21:06 AM »
No, SA voices are also not available via YEM 2.5. (For example, the only entry under Pianos is Grand Harpsichord)


I know you don't have access to complex voices. That's why I asked  :)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 08:10:40 AM by valimaties »
______________________________________________
Vali Matieş - Genos
 

Offline Marcus

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2017, 08:31:01 AM »
Do you have access in YEM to SA voices?! Revo Drums are something like SA ;) it contains wave cycling, I think this feature is used only by Yamaha, not by users :)

Yes, I think this is the case as before, you can completely edit a Normal Voice or Drum Kit in the YEM. So without owning a Genos yet, I can assume that the Revo Kit are not one of the normal kits. Previous Voice Creators and voice creation/editing in the YEM have always been limited to single loop sample files.

However, the Genos Drum Editor within the Style Creator is quite powerful and useful. The user has access to most if not all the Genos Drum Kits. Still not sure about accessing your own loaded Custom Drum Kits from the Expansion folder. So you can still get the exact drum kit editing or reassembly of individual drum instruments from different kits through the Style Creator.

In one of the Martin Harris videos he saves the edited drum kit or reassembled drum instruments in his case to a registration while in Style Creator. That's fine and good, but not the way I use registrations. I prefer to have the edit in the drum kit itself, or at least within the drum kit within the custom style save I want to use.

The fact that drum kit edits were being made within Style Creator and the Drum Editor, makes me think the obvious, that that edit changes can be permanently baked into the style, after saving those changes to your edited style after saving it from the Style Creator. One would have to make the same changes to each drum kit each time you edit your specific style in Style Creator, but at least each time you play that edited style, the custom drum kit changes are there.

If I am correct that drum editor edits can be saved within a style, this opens more possibilities in using those edited drum kit channels transferred into a Multipad loop phrase or used in a Song/Style sync play. In other words, the drum kit edits to the drum kit within that style phrase are baked-in and can be transferred to a Multipad phrase in an external Multipad program. As long as the drum kit is not touched or changed while in a Multipad creator program, the drum Multipad should still play with the edited drum changes when played back in the Genos as a Multipad. I will have to try this eventually.

Secondly, the Genos still allows a MIDI Song file to sync with a style. So any MIDI Song ( with same time signature) can sync/start with a Style and the style will be slave to the tempo of the MIDI, even if the tempo fluctuates. An extremely powerful feature, made far more powerful on the Genos than on my Tyros 5. So basically all parts of the MIDI Song file can play, while the drum track (with the edited drum kit edits baked into the drum channels) plays in sync with the MIDI file replacing the original MIDI drum track , while at the same time the user has complete control over the drums variations, fills, breaks or style ending part buttons. 

I would use this feature more in a traditional musical sense, but I could see the potential of awesome potential in EDM using the Custom Drum Edits with custom style saves, sync/start MIDIs and the Custom Style and with the Custom drum changes with the Genos User Multipads. I wish I was young again.

What blows my mind is how everything is many times more powerful on the Genos over the Tyros5, and in the case of baking in your custom drum edits within a custom style, synced to a MIDI, or contained within a Custom Multipad phrase, along with the upgraded 256 note polyphony, I can't see the end to that potential.

A few of my more complex arrangements, I can sync/start a custom MIDI file to a Custom style, while still synced to a Custom Multipad, plus the ability to sync/start a MIDI song, style, and audio Multipad. Truely exponentially greater potential and creativity on the Genos over my Tyros 5, that's being held down by the format/memory limitation as the Tyros range was stretched to it's limits.

Every upgrade from my first Tyros 3 up to the Tyros 5 and now the Genos seemed to be geared to custom arranging/creatitivity from the music concept stage from both a song writing notation aspect, to getting the voices and arrangement to get edited and sound like a I want, down to the live performance aspect that I ultimately obtained.

So beyond just the sit and play aspect of these great arranger keyboards, I have the complete creative process to create my arrangements, edit the voices/drum kits, save my custom MIDIs, styles, multipads, and then be able to deliver an amazing authentic backup arrangement and vocal totally under my control and whim. Truely amazing. Just with my Yamaha arranger and my support PC in the corner of my room in the basement.

I am extremely excited about getting my Genos. No doubtably eventually a twinset. A complete mind-blowing arranger. Crazy good.

Marcus
 
Gear: Triangle
 

Offline jsb1999

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2017, 11:49:27 AM »
My dream...
 

Offline Marcus

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 12:55:48 PM »
My dream...

You just killed my dream???? Where is the Audio Style????  :o

Hopefully, Yamaha can achieve the direct Drum Kit edit save directly in a firmware update, but for at least now the edits could be saved to a registration.

Marcus

Gear: Triangle
 

Offline jsb1999

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2017, 06:18:00 AM »
Quote
In one of the Martin Harris videos he saves the edited drum kit or reassembled drum instruments in his case to a registration while in Style Creator.

Is this true?

As it stands, to only option I can find after using the (really cool) Drum Setup ability is to save it as a new user style.
If I could save it to a registration, or better yet as a User Drum Kit, it would really improve the usability of this feature.
I know I can use YEM, but YEM does not have access to the new drum kits which we really love.
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2017, 10:37:34 PM »
Is this true?

As it stands, to only option I can find after using the (really cool) Drum Setup ability is to save it as a new user style.
If I could save it to a registration, or better yet as a User Drum Kit, it would really improve the usability of this feature.
I know I can use YEM, but YEM does not have access to the new drum kits which we really love.

No, Drum Setup is NOT for saving to User Drums! It will insert some parameters in SInt part of style! It's happening only in style!
______________________________________________
Vali Matieş - Genos
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2017, 11:31:22 PM »
No, Drum Setup is NOT for saving to User Drums! It will insert some parameters in SInt part of style! It's happening only in style!

Yes, that's why it's located in Style Creator. Only applies to style. Was the same on S970.

Because it's a mix from several drum kits. So it cannot be save in one drum kit.

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2017, 02:11:00 AM »

Because it's a mix from several drum kits. So it cannot be save in one drum kit.

Uli

A mix of several Drum Kits can be made as User Drum Kit in YEM. That's why Drum Setup from Style Creator does not have access to user's Drum Kits (you cannot select an element of a custom Drum kit if you has selected before enter in Style Creator a Preset Drum Kit for RHY2 track).


However, the Genos Drum Editor within the Style Creator is quite powerful and useful. The user has access to most if not all the Genos Drum Kits. Still not sure about accessing your own loaded Custom Drum Kits from the Expansion folder. So you can still get the exact drum kit editing or reassembly of individual drum instruments from different kits through the Style Creator.


The answer is above ...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 02:13:05 AM by valimaties »
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Vali Matieş - Genos
 

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2017, 04:05:18 PM »
I recently discovered that YEM does not allow CUSTOM DRUM from the RevoDrum Kits.
Tyros 5 with MUTEC 2Gb + Roland RD-300NX
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Preset voice editing: Create Genos custom voice?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2017, 12:20:05 AM »
I recently discovered that YEM does not allow CUSTOM DRUM from the RevoDrum Kits.

Yes that's right. Look here:

  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,40949.0.html

The revo drums are not in the list of editable voices, so their element are not accessible for custom voices.

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D