Author Topic: Genos and speakers  (Read 1455 times)

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Offline jondav

Genos and speakers
« on: October 21, 2017, 12:19:51 PM »
Do I understand this right, I pay nearly Ģ4000 for a keyboard, then i have to purchase speakers separately , think i,ll  stick to my 770
 

Offline frankmusik

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2017, 12:23:16 PM »
Yes :-)

So sold your car also?
paid a lot for that car .. without gasoline?

... since over 16 years the Yamaha top models are without speakers so no one had to pay for speakers they donīt need .. and the other can BUY if they want ..

greetings frank
Tyros Support in Germany
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 12:26:48 PM »
No professional keyboard has speakers built in. They are not necessary for stage or studio. Only for home usage.
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 12:28:03 PM »
Do I understand this right, I pay nearly Ģ4000 for a keyboard, then i have to purchase speakers separately , think i,ll  stick to my 770

Yeah stick to your low quallity speakers... and be happy...

There is a reason Genos does not come with speakers
Every situation requires different speakers
Playing at home, playing at a funeral or playing in a stadium..

Your 770 speaker will not even be able to function as monitors on stage..

Thats why a pro instrument does not have build in speakers..
End of discussion
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 12:45:05 PM »
I agree with everything that Bachus, Uli and Frank said, however I use the my s970 speakers as stage monitors, and I think they work very well. I started doing this when I purchased my PSR 3000. Before, I used several equipment to return to the stage, not anymore. And with more than 20 years of road, I think so, the speakers have a good quality and can be used in various situations.
In some shows, like in apartments, I take only the keyboard and people are impressed by the sound that comes from it. Other times I opened gigs, from big bands, and also used as a monitor very well.
Of course the top models do not come with speakers. I believe it to be for the better quality of the machine. I think built-in speakers influence the quality of the audio output.

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 12:53:01 PM »


Thats why a pro instrument does not have build in speakers..
End of discussion
Pro instrument ?... What happened to the balanced outputs on Genos ??  :-\
((((A@424HZ))))
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 01:13:47 PM »
Enildo,

my experience is, that the built in speakers of my S970 are not loud enough as a stage monitor. Ever played near a marshal guitar amp?  ;D

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2017, 01:21:50 PM »
Enildo,

my experience is, that the built in speakers of my S970 are not loud enough as a stage monitor. Ever played near a marshal guitar amp?  ;D

Uli

Now you got heavy with me!  ;D ;D ;D
The Marshal is without comparison!  ;D ;D ;D
But I really like the s970 speakers, especially after the yamaha put the "Master Compressor" on it.

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 01:33:37 PM »
My problem is called "portability".
I play and sing at weddings, company parties, birthdays, holidays, etc.
My sound material today, are 2 acoustic speakers and a mixer (some support material is clear - microphones, cables, stand stay for keyboard, etc). I have a Toyota / Corolla and everything fits inside my car. I do not want to add anything to my sound material. I am very satisfied!

Every day I think about decreasing something more! But I think it does not work, I've reached my limit! ;D ;D ;D
 
Enildo
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 01:35:00 PM by Enildo »
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 01:34:12 PM »
There are two, distinct problems using the onboard sound system as monitors pose. First and foremost, a monitor should provide you with the same audio your audiences hear - not the keyboard's onboard sound system, which could easily overwhelm what you actually hear from your PA system. I know this first hand - been there, done that!

Next, and this only happened to me once, thank goodness. If you are using the onboard sound system as a monitor and your PA happens to either go out, or God forbid, you forget to turn it on, you would never know it happened. In my case, someone accidentally walked behind me, and inadvertently stepped on the power cable to the PA, pulling it free from the back of the PA system, but it still remained plugged into the wall outlet. When I finished the song, people in the audience came up to me and complained they could not hear me singing or playing, at only very, very faintly, which boggled my mind because at the time I was using a big Bose system that would easily cover a massive audience. I quickly began checking things out and discovered what happened.

The next day, I constructed a dead plug for the headset output, which kills the onboard speakers. I was amazed at what I heard, then before my audience began arriving in the venue, I put in a homemade midi file, walked through the room, then came back to the keyboard and began making some subtle, but necessary changes to the global EQ system. It made a huge difference, and the audiences every location I performed noticed the difference immediately.

Onboard speakers are great for when I'm not on stage and in the office/studio working on new songs, registrations, etc... They are worthless for onstage, live performances. The only time I ever used them as a primary PA system was when performing very small, intimate, living room and family room parties, for which they were well suited at low and modest volume levels. At higher levels, however, especially if you are a singer and using a handheld mic on a boom, you WILL get some feedback. Not a problem, though with my Crown CM-311A headset mic, which has incredible feedback rejection.

Hope this helps,

Gary :cool:
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2017, 01:41:36 PM »
Enildo, over the years I streamlined my gear to the point where I could have carried it all in a VW Beetle. I eliminated a mixer, eliminated speaker stands, music stands, mic stands, and lots of wires from the system.

The biggest change was going to a Bose L1 Compact PA system, which does an incredible job. The vertical array sound systems allow you to eliminate speakers or monitors because you hear exactly what the audience hears, and at the same volume. My entire system only takes up a space of 3 X 5 feet on the floor of the venue or stage and that includes the PA system.

I guess one day I will have to post more detailed drawings of the system, but here is a video that will give you an idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLyw_BGteU

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 01:52:35 PM »
There are two, distinct problems using the onboard sound system as monitors pose. First and foremost, a monitor should provide you with the same audio your audiences hear - not the keyboard's onboard sound system, which could easily overwhelm what you actually hear from your PA system. I know this first hand - been there, done that!

Next, and this only happened to me once, thank goodness. If you are using the onboard sound system as a monitor and your PA happens to either go out, or God forbid, you forget to turn it on, you would never know it happened. In my case, someone accidentally walked behind me, and inadvertently stepped on the power cable to the PA, pulling it free from the back of the PA system, but it still remained plugged into the wall outlet. When I finished the song, people in the audience came up to me and complained they could not hear me singing or playing, at only very, very faintly, which boggled my mind because at the time I was using a big Bose system that would easily cover a massive audience. I quickly began checking things out and discovered what happened.

The next day, I constructed a dead plug for the headset output, which kills the onboard speakers. I was amazed at what I heard, then before my audience began arriving in the venue, I put in a homemade midi file, walked through the room, then came back to the keyboard and began making some subtle, but necessary changes to the global EQ system. It made a huge difference, and the audiences every location I performed noticed the difference immediately.

Onboard speakers are great for when I'm not on stage and in the office/studio working on new songs, registrations, etc... They are worthless for onstage, live performances. The only time I ever used them as a primary PA system was when performing very small, intimate, living room and family room parties, for which they were well suited at low and modest volume levels. At higher levels, however, especially if you are a singer and using a handheld mic on a boom, you WILL get some feedback. Not a problem, though with my Crown CM-311A headset mic, which has incredible feedback rejection.

Hope this helps,

Gary :cool:

Thanks for the info and for passing your experiences Gary!

But I must tell you that yes, I use the speakers on the keyboard and I can make a very good sound. I've been working for a long time and I've done a lot of testing to finally reach my goal.

The sound coming from the keyboard I leave very close to the sound of the front, I got it performing tests in my house and before starting the shows, arriving earlier.
Before starting a presentation I record one or two songs on the keyboard itself, and circle the environment listening to what was recorded. Depending on the environment, I put or take a bit of bass or medium or high on the mixer and that's it. It's all done.
I was tired of always having to carry a return sound box with me. We get older and get tired. Lol  ;D
I started working like that after I bought the PSR 3000 and started using his VH.
But I can guarantee that I make a good sound!

I would like to include Subwofers, but when I think about what I'm going to have to carry, I give up! ;D

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2017, 01:53:52 PM »
I guess one day I will have to post more detailed drawings of the system, but here is a video that will give you an idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLyw_BGteU
Gary 8)

Gary
Great setup.    you probably addressed this already numerous times , , ,  what is the name/model of your cart in the video ?  I wonder if it is large enough to accommodate a Tyros 5 or a Genos . .  . ?

thanks in advance.
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2017, 02:10:49 PM »
Al, the cart is a Rock And Roller R-10, which I modified by installing a second tier made from 1-inch aluminum channel I purchased from a nearby welding shop and it is held in place by 4 detent pins. Very, very sturdy and I'm sure it will fit, but check the measurements just to be on the safe side.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R10RT?gclid=CjwKCAjw4KvPBRBeEiwAIqCB-Rqm42bkO02dmbKwAcfKEkkbbqNqQa9N3w3QVR8UCRenaNhKouHTLhoC8W4QAvD_BwE

Gary :cool:
Love Those Yammies...
 
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Offline Enildo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 02:12:19 PM »
Enildo, over the years I streamlined my gear to the point where I could have carried it all in a VW Beetle. I eliminated a mixer, eliminated speaker stands, music stands, mic stands, and lots of wires from the system.

The biggest change was going to a Bose L1 Compact PA system, which does an incredible job. The vertical array sound systems allow you to eliminate speakers or monitors because you hear exactly what the audience hears, and at the same volume. My entire system only takes up a space of 3 X 5 feet on the floor of the venue or stage and that includes the PA system.

I guess one day I will have to post more detailed drawings of the system, but here is a video that will give you an idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLyw_BGteU

Gary 8)

Wow! I loved your setup, Gary!

It's great to know that I'm not the only one who works with a setup light.
I loved the trolley! I also have one but I only take one thing at a time. You've surprised me! I would like to buy a cart of these! :)
About the "vertical array sound systems" I found interesting, but I do not know if it meets my expectations. I've been analyzing some of JBL and RCF, I think it will be my next step.
I observed using an ear microphone is useful to reduce a Microphone Stand, but I do not like them. Sometimes we have to cough or run through our noses and end up leaving everything in the speakers.  ;D

You're to be congratulated!

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2017, 02:19:43 PM »
Enildo, that is the beauty of the Vertical array sound systems, the sub is inclusive and nothing extra to carry. It actually eliminated a lot of PA gear from my setup, yet provided me with incredible 210-degree sound coverage throughout the venue at the same volume for everyone, including myself.

There are some newer ones available that have more powerful sub sounds, such as the Maui 5, which puts out 200-watts RMS and has loads of bottom end sound. Take a look at https://www.idjnow.com/ld-systems-maui-5-ultra-portable-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-with-cases-package.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw4KvPBRBeEiwAIqCB-UBbX-Ws80EjrHrG9LZQnK6WATnHCVISGJD5iEXzZMbIYlt5e8NGBxoCItgQAvD_BwE

My friend, Don Mason, in Benton, LA USA absolutely loves his and performs nightly using a pair of them connected in stereo to his PA4X. He previously used them with a Yamaha S-970 and the sound quality was absolutely superb. And, he does not use a monitor of any kind.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2017, 02:24:36 PM »
Enildo, the headset mic is a Crown CM-311A, which has a belt pack that not only provides phantom power, but additionally, has a cough button right on the top of the pack that can be quickly accessed. And, because the mic is very short ranged, if you have to cough or blow your nose, you can merely flip the mic just below your chin and no one would hear anything. It also has the best feedback rejection of any pro mic available. However, they are quite expensive, ranging $395 to $425 at the online stores. The vocal quality is absolutely incredible, and I absolutely love the freedom it provides while performing onstage, thereby allowing you to have full eye contact with your audience no matter the direction you look.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2017, 02:32:15 PM »
Enildo, that is the beauty of the Vertical array sound systems, the sub is inclusive and nothing extra to carry. It actually eliminated a lot of PA gear from my setup, yet provided me with incredible 210-degree sound coverage throughout the venue at the same volume for everyone, including myself.

There are some newer ones available that have more powerful sub sounds, such as the Maui 5, which puts out 200-watts RMS and has loads of bottom end sound. Take a look at https://www.idjnow.com/ld-systems-maui-5-ultra-portable-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-with-cases-package.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw4KvPBRBeEiwAIqCB-UBbX-Ws80EjrHrG9LZQnK6WATnHCVISGJD5iEXzZMbIYlt5e8NGBxoCItgQAvD_BwE

My friend, Don Mason, in Benton, LA USA absolutely loves his and performs nightly using a pair of them connected in stereo to his PA4X. He previously used them with a Yamaha S-970 and the sound quality was absolutely superb. And, he does not use a monitor of any kind.

Good luck,

Gary 8)

I've been dating one of these for some time now, Gary!
Here in Brazil is still very expensive, at $ 2,000 to $ 3,000, a resemblance to this one, from RCF!  :o
But it will surely be my future. God willing!

Thanks for the great tip!  ;)

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2017, 02:34:41 PM »
Enildo, the headset mic is a Crown CM-311A, which has a belt pack that not only provides phantom power, but additionally, has a cough button right on the top of the pack that can be quickly accessed. And, because the mic is very short ranged, if you have to cough or blow your nose, you can merely flip the mic just below your chin and no one would hear anything. It also has the best feedback rejection of any pro mic available. However, they are quite expensive, ranging $395 to $425 at the online stores. The vocal quality is absolutely incredible, and I absolutely love the freedom it provides while performing onstage, thereby allowing you to have full eye contact with your audience no matter the direction you look.

Good luck,

Gary 8)

Wow! Very good!
For the price should be a great microphone!

You work with an excellent setup!

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2017, 02:36:59 PM »
Hey Gary!

More interesting is to see you setting everything up! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nOUXhXwkcI
Sounds like my routine!
Very cool!

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline StuartR

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2017, 05:23:04 PM »
Pro instrument ?... What happened to the balanced outputs on Genos ??  :-\

My guess is that it's still considered a prosumer device and so has unbalanced outputs to match the unbalanced inputs found on other prosumer devices. They did provide a digital output for use in studio/commercial environments. Just my opinion
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2017, 06:37:21 PM »
the headset mic is a Crown CM-311A,  quite expensive, ranging $395 to $425 at the online stores.
Gary 8)

I bought one of this at the Guitar Center in San Diego.  It was second hand (used) but in good shape.  I paid about $100 to $150 (i do not remember).   It works real well. !!!   I use it from time to time because I do not get used to the headset.   You have to get used to it.

thanks
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2017, 07:55:23 PM »
Once you get used to using a headset mic, you will find it very difficult to go back to a handheld mic, even one on a boom stand. Using a headset mic requires special vocal control, which I learned many years ago as a newscaster for a local radio station. Once this is accomplished, you will love the headset mic and all it can do for you.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
The following users thanked this post: Al Ram

Offline frankmusik

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2017, 05:09:41 AM »
@gary
I love to see clever musicians :-)

clever selection for your need (L1C) good transportation (your caddy) ... and finishing in less than 10 Minutes!

thanks for your videos.
frank


PS: I told every musician not to use MORE than 4 walking ways to the car ... YOU have ONE :-)
Tyros Support in Germany
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2017, 08:38:51 AM »
Thanks for the compliments, Frank. My goal was to be able to set up the gear in less than 10 minutes, which I managed to achieve most of the time. Much of this was facilitated by designing and constructing my custom console, which housed all the power supplies, vocal processor, makes a great, permanent location for my netbook PC that I use for lyrics, MP3s, MIDI files, etc... and also doubles as a lighted sign that covers the front of the keyboard, while the light on the back of the console lights the top of the keyboard with a soft light that makes it easy to see the keyboard in a darkened restaurant or nite club. Ironically, the console weighs nearly as much as my PSR-S950, but much more compact. I ended up building about a dozen of the consoles for other musicians in the US, most of which still use and love it for ease of setup and the lighting.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline jondav

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2017, 12:17:30 PM »
Yeah stick to your low quallity speakers... and be happy...

There is a reason Genos does not come with speakers
Every situation requires different speakers
Playing at home, playing at a funeral or playing in a stadium..

Your 770 speaker will not even be able to function as monitors on stage..

Thats why a pro instrument does not have build in speakers..
End of discussion                   So what your saying is that the Genos is for "professional" musicians only, and leisure players , like myself, should not entertain purchasing one ,personally I think it is overpriced for what you get, and I am more than happy to stick to the 770, end of discussion
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2017, 03:26:45 AM »
Using a headset mic requires special vocal control, which I learned many years ago as a newscaster for a local radio station.

Hi Gary,

Thanks for sharing your wealth of experience!

Could you elaborate on the vocal control, please? Do you mean things like coughing, screaming, etc.?

Thanks in advance,


Maarten
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and speakers
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2017, 08:01:50 AM »
By vocal control, I mean the singer must be able to sing into a mic and provide full expression while the mic remains in the exact same position. You can no longer use what some refer to as a proximity effect or pull away technique when singing higher notes that are barely within your vocal range. Your vocals will have to relatively even in volume level, while still using voice inflections to provide or produce the YOU in the song. If you watch a TV newscaster you will notice that they are using a lavaliere or lapel mic that never moves, but you can readily hear the change of inflections in their voice, which makes the stories more interesting and holds the interest of the audience. This is vocal control.

Hope this helps,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...