Author Topic: About expansion compatibility and wave formats  (Read 770 times)

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Offline voodoo

About expansion compatibility and wave formats
« on: October 13, 2017, 06:14:14 AM »
I looked at some of my S970 expansions and examined, which of them are are usable for the Tyros 5. I found out, that some voices from S970 expansions are exportable to Tyros 5 and some other voices are not. Now I found the difference:

* Voices, which use only the wave format "WXC", that is the proprietary lossless compressed Yamaha wave format, are usable on Tyros 5.
  Examples: PSR-340-Pack, PSR-A2000-Oriental-Pack, Salsa, Vietnam, Entertainer, Euro Dance, Church Organ, Celtic, Latin.

* Voices, which use the wave format "LINEAR16", that is PCM as used in user voices, are usable in Tyros.
  Examples: All CMS and EasySounds and other third party packs.

* Voices, which use the wave format "LINEAR16_FRAME", are usable only in S970 and not on Tyros 5.
  Examples: Best-Of-Europe, Mexican, Western Europe, all Indian packs.

So PSR-S970 uses a new wave format LINEAR16_FRAME which is not compatible with Tyros 5. I wonder whether the new Genos will support this wave format. If it does, then many PSR-S970 expansion packs could be loaded to Genos, too. At least the voices from the packs could be used.

Some identical voices are available in two formats. "IrishAccordion" from Celtic-Pack uses only WXC in all 15 samples and works on T5. The same voice called "Irish Accordeon" from Best-of-Europe-Pack uses WXC for 12 samples and  LINEAR16_FRAME for 3 samples. This identical voice does not work on T5. Both voices have MSB=49, LSB=0, PC=0.

Did anybody hear about the format LINEAR16_FRAME? It uses same amount of space as PCM, that is double amount of space as compared to WXC.

Uli

« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 06:19:30 AM by voodoo »
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: About expansion compatibility and wave formats
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 06:28:56 AM »
We do know that the packs will have to be converted from Tyros to Genos and there is a list out in which order these will be done. Scroll down this thread to read it. Pleased to see the Christmas pack will be done in December. I don't think anyone knows about third party packs and how they will be done yet. YEM for Genos will be out next month.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 06:38:06 AM by EileenL »
 

Offline Marcus

Re: About expansion compatibility and wave formats
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 06:49:52 AM »
The Yamaha Genos conversion schedule seems only for the Tyros 5 series. Not sure if PSR-S series arrangers qualify for the upgrade, but doesn't mean some files from those original expansion pack shouldn't load or be recognized by the Genos YEM. All details are still not known, making one's decision difficult.

Tyros5 Premium Pack conversion schedule for Genos
https://download.yamaha.com/files/tcm:39-1124921/

Marcus
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 07:57:41 AM by Marcus »
Gear: Triangle
 

Offline voodoo

Re: About expansion compatibility and wave formats
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 07:15:05 AM »
Yes, I know the official migration plan. But I wanted to talk about:

* different sample formats and why some work on Tyros and others not, just for technical interest

* how to simply use S970 expansions on Tyros and Genos, just for "because we can".

Of course this will be no qualitative substitute for original Genos expansions. ;)
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline pjd

Re: About expansion compatibility and wave formats
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 07:30:59 AM »
Voices, which use the wave format "LINEAR16_FRAME", are usable only in S970 and not on Tyros 5.

So PSR-S970 uses a new wave format LINEAR16_FRAME which is not compatible with Tyros 5. I wonder whether the new Genos will support this wave format.

Did anybody hear about the format LINEAR16_FRAME? It uses same amount of space as PCM, that is double amount of space as compared to WXC.

Hi Uli --

The new SWP70 tone generator supports a new form of sample compression: LINEAR16_FRAME. This may be mentioned/described in a Yamaha patent; I haven't been able to dive into it.

The S970 uses the SWP70. The Tyros 5 uses the old SWP51L. Genos surely uses the SWP70. It's the new generation.   ;)

Speculation: The frame business allows hardware time stretch. This is a totally unproven, unthought-through conjecture.

Hope this helps. A very nice find and analysis for the end user!  8)

-- pj

 
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Offline Joe H

Re: About expansion compatibility and wave formats
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 08:11:15 AM »
Uli,

Yamaha PSR-S970 (sold)
Yamaha Genos (ordered)


I'm sure you will have some valuable feedback and contributions to make once you have your new Genos.   It is a beautiful sounding instrument.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline voodoo

Re: About expansion compatibility and wave formats
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 12:45:18 AM »
The new SWP70 tone generator supports a new form of sample compression: LINEAR16_FRAME. This may be mentioned/described in a Yamaha patent; I haven't been able to dive into it.

Pj,

wow, you always know the correct answers. Respect.

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline Jørgen

Re: About expansion compatibility and wave formats
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 02:37:31 AM »
Hi

Right!

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/ is a gold mine for the techies... ;)

Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999