Author Topic: INTRO4 and ENDING4  (Read 2035 times)

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Offline Cosmorot

« on: August 18, 2017, 05:59:05 AM »
It has long seen these buttons in creating custom style.
But what do they mean? Is it possible to use?

Offline DrakeM

« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2017, 06:02:09 AM »

Offline Constrictor

« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 06:12:38 AM »
It has long seen these buttons in creating custom style.
But what do they mean? Is it possible to use?

I suppose it's like the Main D that does not have Intro and Ending

Offline DerekA

« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 07:39:59 AM »
It is possible to create a style file (through a custom written computer program) that contains an Intro4 and Ending4 section. However, none of the PSR / Tyros boards have a panel button that can trigger them, so they are not much use.

Offline SeaGtGruff

« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 08:37:28 AM »
I wonder if they can be triggered by MIDI? For instance, the Data List for the PSR-S970 and PSR-S770 lists them on page 102, which doesn't make sense if they can't be triggered using the listed values-- and there are no special comments indicating that those two sections can't be used.

EDIT: They're listed on page 96 of the Data List for the Tyros 5.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 08:40:02 AM by SeaGtGruff »
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400

Offline SeaGtGruff

« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 11:59:34 AM »
Bachus, I tend to agree with your remark about overkill and the need for more song-specific styles.

The fact that Music Finder/Music Database entries contain not just which Style to use but also the Tempo and the Style Section would seem to indicate that each onboard style is meant to be used for playing any number of songs.

I might be wrong, but I suspect that the first Yamaha keyboards to include an auto accompaniment function had just one variation per style. Two variations came later, and then of course four variations.

It's really just a way to increase the number of songs that a given style can potentially be used to play-- but that means the style is less likely to be a "perfect fit" for a specific song; rather it will be more of a "near fit."

It's understandable why Yamaha would want each onboard style, or style files sold through MusicSoft, to be applicable to as many songs as possible, as that's a better selling point for them.

But if a particular model can freely access external style files from a USB drive, it makes better sense from a performer's viewpoint for each style file to be crafted with a specific song in mind, in which case a single Intro and Ending-- and possibly no more than two Main variations and Fill Ins-- should be adequate.

It's really the internal styles on lower-end models which can't use any external style files, or style files for models which require an external style file to be loaded into memory and "registered" as a "User Style," where it's more beneficial for a style to have as many different variations as the keyboard can access.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400

Offline tyrosaurus

« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 12:11:42 PM »
I agree with Bachus that users are unlikely to need the fourth Ending, but a fourth Intro may be useful in some circumstances, for example where Intros are being used as Breaks (since they can be longer than 1 bar and continue to a Main part once finished).

It turns out that both Ending 4 and Intro 4 can be triggered by registrations, as long as the parts actually exist of course.

However at the moment there is no simple means of saving a registration with either selected,  but you can save it with a different intro/ending and then modify the relevant byte in the registration using a Hex editor. The style parts for this byte range from (all hex) 00 (Intro 1) to 03 (Intro 4) and 20 (Ending 1) to 23 (Ending 4).

The parts themselves can be created in Style Creator just like any other part, either by recording them or by style assembly.

Since I had a bit of spare time this afternoon,  just out of interest, I added a fourth Intro and Ending to a style - both were done using style assembly, the intro from a different style and the ending by just copying the Rhythm and Chord1 parts from ending 3 of the same style.

I then created registrations for the three original intros and endings using the modified style with just the Style group checked.  A bit of detective work using a Hex editor revealed the bytes which specify the parts and I increased it's value by 1 for intro and ending 3.  Back on the keyboard, sure enough, this triggered intro/ending 4.

I have attached the style and the registration banks if anyone is interested, but I only regard this as an interesting academic exercise and can't see it being of much use to anyone.  I don't see me wanting to do this for real!

The style is a modified Tyros4 preset (SFF2) and the registration banks are also from a T4.  Put the style in the root of a USB drive and the regs. should find it.

I think that you can also select these fourth parts using the SysEx 'Section Control' code  (F0 43 7E 00 ss dd F7 - see Data List for ss, dd) which could presumably be included in a MIDI or sent by an external controller.

Maybe if someone really wants to access these extra parts, they could persuade Murray Best to allow selection of them within his excellent Registration Manager program, but I can't believe that there are many that would want them!


« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 02:49:18 PM by tyrosaurus »
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Offline pjd

« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 02:04:09 PM »
Nice experiment, Ian!

When I create styles with a DAW, I sometimes "hide" an alternative intro or ending in INTRO4 and/or ENDING4. The idea is to save these sections for a rainy day and maybe swap them with another (existing) section.

Most of the Yamaha intros and endings are waaaaaaaaay over-orchestrated/arranged musically. For endings, give me a simple, live-ending tag. Same for a variety of simple count-in type intros.

No shade intended on people who like the Yamaha ones.

All the best -- pj

Offline Cosmorot

« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 10:43:36 PM »
Well, I would have used an extra intro! For example, in dance styles, you can take one of the variations, copy into the intro 4 and filter. It's unreal to make a hand, but as a ready-made midi - it can be done.
And about the "possibility" of using - I made a style with Intro 4 and Outro 4. There is no button for use on the Yamaha. But in Cubase the style opened with the "4" marks!
   This means that Yamaha actually works with this data! The question with the "controller" which fulfills the condition of playing the marker "4"

Offline Jørgen

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