Author Topic: Minor intro in style creation  (Read 2082 times)

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Offline david.uk61

Minor intro in style creation
« on: August 02, 2016, 06:16:27 AM »
Hello All ,

again with some difficult thing i faced today, need your experts help.

i was composing the Intro part in style creation. got stuck when i was composing for Minor part, since the non rhythm parts accepts only Major scale. i am bit worried is there a solution to this problem ,

i tried all the possible option to get the minor output.

My song Intro is in Fm scale. when i compose it the output is not at all what i desired.

Kindly provide your suggestions.

Thanks & Regards,
David
 

Online DrakeM

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 06:46:11 AM »
I play by ear but I am pretty sure that you are going to have to play the song in Am in order to create a style intro.

You must always record in the key of C when creating a style. That is why I am pretty sure you will have to play in Am in order to record and create your style intro.

Regards
Drake

Offline david.uk61

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 08:12:11 AM »
Hi Drake ,

Thanks for the reply ,

I tried this option as well... its not coming as expected.

i will just give the below key notes which i am trying in Fm

F E F G C Ab Gb G F(In F harmonic Minor)

Transpose in Am for the same which i tried but didn't work

A Ab A B E D C B A (In A harmonic Minor)

also i just read in the user manual these below information.


(• Use only the CM7 scale tones when recording the Bass and Phrase Parts (i.e.,
C, D, E, G, A, and B).
• Use only the C chord tones when recording the Chord and Pad Parts (i.e., C,
E, G, and B).
Using the data recorded here, the auto accompaniment (Style playback) is
appropriately converted depending on the chord changes you make during your
performance. The chord which forms the basis for this note conversion is called
the Source Chord, and is set by default to CM7 (as in the example illustration
above)

So there must be a different option apart from this.

Thanks & Regards,
David
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 08:26:17 AM »
David,

I have not experimented with minor scales (yet) but...

For Intros in Minor scales try the following settings:

RTR Source Root = Key (in your case the key of F)
RTR Source Chord = Minor

NTR = Transpose
NTT = Bypass

Let us know how it goes.

Joe H
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 08:27:54 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline david.uk61

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 01:57:38 PM »

Hi Joe,

Thank you for the reply,

first time seeing the terms RTR source Root, RTR Source Chord
NTR = Transpose
NTT = Bypass

any explanation or examples for these terms pls?
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 02:49:53 PM »
David,

Download the support docs for StyleMagic... you will find an explanation and lot s of other info in these doc.

StyleMagic Support Docs

https://app.box.com/s/2c2jo73f0shd2j1lik5l5kx8j5fa6r40


Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 08:26:49 AM »
When creating any style parts on Yamaha keyboards they must be written in C Mag chord. When played the keyboard follows what chord you play be it Major or Minor. Just like the onboard ones do.

Offline Joe H

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2016, 11:56:24 AM »
Intros and Endings do not have to be in CMaj or CMaj7 scale.  Yamaha has produce many styles with the Intros and Endings recorded in Minor scales.   The CASM just has to be set to the correct Key signature.

The new DJ styles are all recorded in Minor scales, even the Main Sections which are designed to play similar to Intros except they will play continuously until you select another Section.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline david.uk61

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 04:45:12 PM »
Joe ,

But when i tried to compose the music in Fmin it was total mess.

i also tried to do a sample check by just playing all the notes in C MAJ(C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C). however after recording and saving when i played it , its only taking C,D,E,E,G,G,B,C... so here its skipping F and A which is making the tune wrong.

i Have tried all the options available... nothing working out :( :( :(

 

Offline Joe H

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2016, 07:01:54 PM »
David,

As I already mentioned I have not recorded Intros in Minor scales but try these settings.

Source Root = C
Source Chord = Maj7

NTR = Transpose
NTT = Bypass

RTR = Pitch Shift

Your intro should play as you intended it to sound... sorry,  don't have any other suggestions to offer at the moment.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Online tyrosaurus

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2016, 08:20:14 AM »
Hi David,

As far as I can see from the manuals, the version of Style Creator in your S650 does not give access to the Style File Format settings  (CASM and Source Root/Chord settings) that Joe H has been referring to, so you may not be able to perfect your style on the keyboard alone. 

These settings are available on the PARAMETER page of other versions of Style Creator, including the one in the PSR-S670 which I suppose is the successor to the S650  (it might be worth downloading the S670 Reference Manual which explains the various Style File Settings (page 36 onwards) even though you can't seem to access them on your S650).

I confess that I am not very experienced in style creation having mainly used Style Assembly and rerecorded a few parts in existing styles, so I can't really offer you advice, although I thought that you could record any notes in Intros as long as the NTT was set not to transpose the pattern during playback.

However I was wondering if you could use an external computer based CASM editing program to set the Source Root/Chord.   There is a program for PC called 'CASM Editor' by Jørgen Sørensen which might be able to help you.  It currently only works with SFF (aka SFF1) styles (it warns you if you try to load an SFF2 style) so if the S650 saves styles in SFF2 format you would need to convert them first, which you can do using another of Jørgen's programs 'Style Format 2 Converter'.   

Links to both these programs are available from the page at this link... http://www.psrtutorial.com/util/sorensonStyle.html

The sections of the Reference manuals for keyboards that do contain the PARAMETER page in Style Creator say about setting the Source Chord ...

SOURCE (PLAY) ROOT/CHORD

IMPORTANT

The parameters here should be set before recording.  If you change the settings after recording, the appropriate note conversion cannot be done even when you specify various chord types.  Before recording, you should set these parameters which determine what key is used for playing when you  record the Source Pattern to the Bass, Chord, Pad or Phrase channel.  If you set this to “Fm7,” your recorded original phrase (Source Pattern) will be triggered by specifying Fm7 during normal performance. CM7 (Source Chord Root = C and Source Chord Type = M7) is set by default.  Depending on the settings here, the playable notes (chord notes and recommended scale notes) will differ.


So it looks as if you will need to set the source root/chord on the computer, then transfer the style back to the keyboard and then record the intro.  However it's possible that keyboard might reset the source when you select REC!  I don't know.

Regarding the section in the S650 Reference Manual that says...

Using the data recorded here, the auto accompaniment (Style playback) is appropriately converted depending on the chord changes you make during your performance.  The chord which forms the basis for this note conversion is called the Source Chord, and is set by default to CM7

This seems to suggest that you can change the Source Chord on the keyboard, but there is nothing in the manual that explains how!  I suspect that the wording used is just standard phrasing used in these manuals, and doesn't mean that you can change it on the S650!

I don't know if the information in this post is of any help to you,  but if you have read about style file and CASM formats, then maybe it is something that you can look into since you don't seem to be getting very far with the keyboard alone, and I assume that this problem is going to occur again for you with other styles that you make.


Regards

Ian
 

Offline david.uk61

Re: Minor intro in style creation
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2016, 10:17:33 AM »
Thank you so much Joe and Ian ...

i got a lot of informations now... bud luck i am not using the higher version keyboard to do the settings as i wish ...

Hope i am going to try something new as per your advice's.

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. worth learning new things. :) :) :)

Regards,
David