Author Topic: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650  (Read 6353 times)

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Offline vbdx66

Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« on: July 13, 2016, 04:42:00 AM »
Hi to you all,

I have been willing for a long time to connect my DGX 650 to an iPad in order to use  Garageband and the Yamaha apps with the DGX.

I had to put this project aside because I  could not afford to buy a recent iPad, until I had a stroke of luck during these summer sales and fell upon a demonstration iPad air for sale at the ridiculous price of 150 ! The iPad is now in the process of being reinitialised at the shop were I bought it to install the fully-fledge, latest iOS version (it seems a "downgraded" demo  version of the OS was installed on it) and I should get it back on Friday at the latest.

So now that I am a happy iPad owner (on top of a happy Yamaha keyboard owner, of course), here is my question (there'll probably be more in the forthcoming weeks):

Does anyone know how I can connect the iPad to the DGX? Sould I use the lightning version of Apple Camera Connection kit and an USB printer cable to connect the iPad to the DGX via its USB to Host port, or would it be better to use a dedicated cable like this one:

https://m.thomann.de/fr/native_instruments_traktor_cable_usb_to_lightning.htm?offid=6&affid=1&subid=375292FR&subid2=Native+Instruments+Traktor+Cable+USB+to+Lightning&origin=boost&gclid=Cj0KEQjwzZe8BRDguN3cmOr4_dgBEiQAijjVFmBJfyzFrSIcAIsnB-pdlKUrDX7v4ufs7elf-93XACYaAv9U8P8HAQ#

For the audio part, it is easier, I simply need to connect the audio out of the iPad to the audio in of the DGX via a 3,5 Jack cable.

Also, I am looking for an app to view sheet music on the iPad, is there any you could recommend?

Lastly, since I am  very new to this business of connecting an iPad to a Yamaha board, all suggestions for interesting apps / accessories / tips'n'tricks would be more than welcome!

Thanks in advance for helping and best regards,  8)

Vinciane.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 05:31:09 AM by vbdx66 »
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR E433, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 11:18:07 AM »
Congratulations on your purchase! :)

I'm not familiar with the cable you linked to. That's a tough call, since it's largely a matter of personal preference. The advantage of such a cable is that it's all one piece. But the advantage of getting a Camera Connection Kit is that you can use a USB cable of whatever length you need.

Another alternative would be to get the Yamaha UD-BT01 wireless Bluetooth USB-MIDI interface-- which, as I understand it, would also require getting a USB power adapter-- so you can connect to the iPad via Bluetooth. Then you could connect to either your iPad or your computer without needing to switch cables.

GarageBand is free and will let you record audio, but you might want to consider getting Cubasis as it will let you record and edit MIDI and play back sequences to control your keyboard (http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/mobile_apps/cubasis/start.html). It isn't the only DAW for iPads, but it's probably the best one if you have a Yamaha keyboard, since it handles SysEx messages and Yamaha's XG messages. Cubase is currently (from July 6, 2016 through July 20, 2016) on sale at half price, so you can get it for $25 instead of the usual $50 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cubasis-music-production-system/id583976519?mt=8).

As for the audio connection, it sounds like you have it backwards-- unless you were talking about sending audio from the iPad to the keyboard. For recording audio you can certainly use the iPad's built-in microphone, but it would probably be better to get some sort of audio interface for the iPad.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 11:59:50 AM »
Hello Michael and thanks for helping.

You will recall that I considered at one time buying an iPod touch because it is obviously cheaper, but eventually I am so glad I found a fully fledge iPad air instead  ;)

As for the system to connect the iPad to the keyboard, my main concern was not the practical side of it, but rather wether it will work in the first place. If you tell me that both solutions do work, I think your advice is sensible and I will rather go for the Camera Connection Kit, since I already owe several USB printer cables. Since I am a complete beginner as regards making music with an iPad, I don't think I will need the Bluetooth module at the beginning.

As far as audio is concerned, you are right, I want at first to send the audio from the iPad to the keyboard. What I am planning to do is to use the DGX as a USB MIDI keyboard to play the voices in Garageband or other iOS software and send the audio back to the piano, which possesses both a nice amplifying system and a wave recording function.

I might then export the audio recorded on the keboard to the iPad to do multitrack editing with Garageband, Cubase or other software on the iPad, but I'll see to that later. At first, I simply intend to use the iPad and Garageband as an expander to have more sound sources on the DGX.

Thanks again for your help, if you have further suggestions they'll be very welcome. I'll also try to report on my experiments in this post or a new one.

Best Regards

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR E433, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 12:10:55 PM »
Yes, I do remember that you were thinking about getting an iPod touch at one point. :)

I finally found my old iPod touch, by the way. It turns out that it's a 2nd generation, so it's too old to update to the newest version of iOS. And besides that, the battery is completely dead and won't hold a charge, so I'll need to get a replacement battery for it. But right now that's pretty low on my list of priorities. :)
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 12:46:57 PM »
If you replace the battery, it might still come handy to listen to some music when on the go (after all, this is what it was meant for in the first place) ;)

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR E433, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 05:46:33 PM »
Michael
I have been considering an iPad to connect it to my Tyros 5 to display lyrics and chords.

I found your reference to Cubasis very interesting, i am not familiar with this software and would like to know if it will allow me to record audio performances from my Tyros 5.    Including voice when i sing, my microphone is directly connected to the T5.

I think that Cubasis will probably allow for more features but at the beginning i would be happy to be able to record performances.  I have been using physical recorders with mixed results.

Please advise.

thanks in advance. 
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 09:27:25 PM »
Michael
I have been considering an iPad to connect it to my Tyros 5 to display lyrics and chords.

I found your reference to Cubasis very interesting, i am not familiar with this software and would like to know if it will allow me to record audio performances from my Tyros 5.    Including voice when i sing, my microphone is directly connected to the T5.

I think that Cubasis will probably allow for more features but at the beginning i would be happy to be able to record performances.  I have been using physical recorders with mixed results.

Why not just record on the Tyros? You won't get any better recording elsewhere.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Tyros 4, Bose L1, Finale 2011
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2016, 01:13:03 AM »
I found your reference to Cubasis very interesting, i am not familiar with this software and would like to know if it will allow me to record audio performances from my Tyros 5.    Including voice when i sing, my microphone is directly connected to the T5.

Cubasis is essentially the iOS version of Steinberg's well-known Cubase DAW. I don't have Cubasis (yet), but I do have Cubase Elements 8. Cubasis will certainly let you record audio from your Tyros 5. There are other apps that can record audio, including GarageBand (which, unlike Cubasis, is free). The reason I think Cubasis is probably the best DAW for the iPad if you have a Yamaha keyboard is because Cubasis has a built-in understanding of Yamaha's SysEx and XG messages-- at least, Cubase does, so I assume that Cubasis does, too-- since Steinberg is owned by Yamaha. GarageBand doesn't really work with MIDI-- you can use MIDI input to control its virtual instruments, and you can edit MIDI tracks, but you can't save to a MIDI file or stream MIDI data to an external keyboard or other MIDI device.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2016, 04:43:21 PM »
Fred
I believe you are right.  Probably best recording would be with internal Tyros 5 recording.  However, mostly due to my ignorance I am sure,  I do not get good recordings when using the Tyros.

Michael,
I have access to a used iPad and can download GarageBand for testing.  I really do not use MIDI that much, so MIDI is not a strong consideration in my case.

Thanks a lot for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated.
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline Ed B

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2016, 06:15:45 PM »
Hi Al
Recording is real easy on the T5 or PSR. First record a midi then you can edit it if you need to. Then record this to an audio file.
There are tutorials on doing this in the lessons section.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/lessons/playing/rec/10qrecord.html
Do give it a whirl and come back if you are not happy with the result.
Regards
Ed B
Keep on learning
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2016, 06:41:43 PM »
Ed
Thanks a lot for taking the time.  I looked at the instructions you sent.   Yes, that is basically what i do on the T5.  I follow the instructions on the T5 user manual.    Usually i do 'quick recording' and try to record everything at once, the music i play in T5, including style, voices, etc as well as my singing to the mic connected to the T5.  Most the of the time the music recorded comes out ok, my voice, however, is not recorded as well.    It seems to me that there are probably some parameters that i need to adjust to have a good recording.  Because when i play and sing the sound seems different than what comes out in the recording.    Well,   i will keep on trying.

thanks again.
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline Ed B

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2016, 01:28:26 PM »
Hi Al
Sounds like your issue maybe with the mike setup and the balance with the accompaniment. If you listen to some of the postings of songs by members. You sure are able to get a very good recording.
Best
Ed B
Keep on learning
 

Offline Tangerine

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 05:01:10 PM »
Sorry to revive an old thread but I found this forum whilst searching for an answer to pretty much the same problem except in my case, I have an Apple camera connection kit and have connected my newly purchased PSR-EW400 via a number of different USB A-B cables and it works with the Yamaha SoundControl app for about thirty seconds and then an error comes up on my iPad saying that the device is not compatible with iPad and that's the end of it, as far as the using the app is concerned. If I restart the iPad, I can get another thirty seconds but I have tried every USB A-B cable I can find which work fine when a keyboard is connected to my Mac.

By the way, GarageBand can edit MIDI. Maybe earlier versions couldn't but since v2, there are a load of new features. I normally use Logic but since I rediscovered an updated version of GarageBand on my iPad, it feels like I use it more than Logic.

Offline alanclare

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 11:54:52 PM »
Vinciane

We seem to have overlooked your request for suitable apps to view sheet music. I have recently been down this path, and a trawl of the postings on this forum seemed to show pretty solid support for forScore, so I followed suit. My, albeit limited, experience of the app is 100% satisfaction. forScore uses music (and other documents) in PDF format and you will find elsewhere on this forum links to a wealth of music in this form. I anticipate that I shall very soon find most of the music that I play will be in my iPad.

Alan

Offline vbdx66

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2017, 12:51:14 AM »
Sorry to revive an old thread but I found this forum whilst searching for an answer to pretty much the same problem except in my case, I have an Apple camera connection kit and have connected my newly purchased PSR-EW400 via a number of different USB A-B cables and it works with the Yamaha SoundControl app for about thirty seconds and then an error comes up on my iPad saying that the device is not compatible with iPad and that's the end of it, as far as the using the app is concerned. If I restart the iPad, I can get another thirty seconds but I have tried every USB A-B cable I can find which work fine when a keyboard is connected to my Mac.

By the way, GarageBand can edit MIDI. Maybe earlier versions couldn't but since v2, there are a load of new features. I normally use Logic but since I rediscovered an updated version of GarageBand on my iPad, it feels like I use it more than Logic.

I Tangerine,

I find it very strange that Sound Controller doesn't work with the EW 400 since it has been working with smaller keyboards of the E series like the PSR E353.

I think maybe you should repost this issue in the board dedicated to the PSR E series of keyboards, where someone might help you.

Regards,

Vinciane.
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR E433, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2017, 02:31:33 AM »
Tangerine, regarding the issue with the PSR-EW400, I'm wondering if the problem isn't with the USB cable, but rather is somehow related to the fact that the PSR-E453 and PSR-EW400 use the USB for both MIDI and audio data? I'm not sure whether that matters to the iPad, but the USB driver for using those keyboards with Windows is different than the USB driver for the models that don't use the USB for combined MIDI/audio data.

The only other idea that comes to mind is that perhaps the app needs to be updated to recognize the PSR-EW400 (and presumably also the PSR-E453, PSR-E363, and PSR-EW300) as compatible models-- that is, if it's comparing the device name that the keyboard is sending it against some list of models that it's supposed to recognize as compatible. Or the app might need to be updated to account for the differences in the USB data.

Also, I think the Audio Loop Back function on the PSR-EW400 has to be set to Off; see page 37 of the Owner's Manual.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline Tangerine

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2017, 12:08:52 PM »
As I mentioned, the Sound Controller app works for a very short while and then I get an error from the iPad.

I wouldn't have even bothered trying any Yamaha apps had it not been that I was browsing on the Yamaha PSR-EW400 page and looked at the compatible accessories which, for some reason, included iOS apps. Sound Controller was listed, so I assume that it is supposed to be compatible and I have the latest version.

It may be worth pointing out that Sound Controller is natively an iPhone/iPod app but all iPhone/iPod apps should run on iPads - either at native size or resized to fit the iPad screen (almost).

And it is noteworthy that nobody has ever reviewed Sound Controller - at least as far as I can see on the App Store.

I am tempted to abandon the idea of even bothering, to be honest, after 35 years working with computers, I think I am getting too tired of struggling with incompatibility issues - often to the point that when I get something working, my creative spark has fizzled out. I use the PSR-EW400 as is.
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2017, 02:55:38 PM »
The Sound Controller app works fine with my YPT-400, PSR-E433, and PSR-E443. Unfortunately, I can't use it right now because I seem to have misplaced the USB connector from my Camera Connection Kit.

Besides the possibility that the issue might be related to a difference in the data going over the USB connection, another thing that comes to mind is that Yamaha might have programmed the "wrong" name for the keyboard into the app. The other model names take no more that 8 characters, whereas "PSR-EW400" is nine characters counting the hyphen. The User Files and Backup File which are saved from the PSR-EW400 report its name as "PSREW400" without the hyphen so it fits into the 8-character data field that holds the model name in those files. If the app is programmed to look for the name with the hyphen, but the keyboard has the name stored internally without the hyphen so it can fit into an 8-character field, maybe that keeps the app from finding a match? But if that's the case, one would expect the message to be displayed right off the bat, not 30 seconds after everything was working fine.

I think you should contact Yamaha Support to let them know, because they may need to make some sort of correction to the app.

Have you tried any of the other apps from Yamaha, such as the Scale Tuner app?
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline Tangerine

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2017, 07:10:05 AM »
Yes, I tried another app but I didn't mention it because I couldn't remember what it was called and I don't have my iPad to hand but it is a synth app and did pretty much the same thing only quicker. I didn't try the Scale Tuner app because I didn't think it was something I would use; at least not at this stage.

In the meantime, I had a slight change of heart and thought I would try the Traktor cable linked earlier before giving up entirely. It has a 30 day return on it so I am only gambling the return postage.
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2017, 09:55:18 AM »
On another forum site a user just posted about a problem he had with using a Yamaha P-115 digital piano with a used iPad mini 2. He said it would work for a little while, then lose connection and stop working, and the only thing he could do was turn everything off and try again, after which it would work for a little while and then lose connection again. I thought it sounded a bit similar to your problem, if also a bit different.

He said he borrowed a friend's Lightning-to-USB adapter to try and it worked, so he ordered a new Lightning-to-USB adapter for himself and now things work as they should. I guess the Lightning-to-USB adapter that came with the used iPad was defective in some way? I don't know if it was the adapter from the Camera Connection Kit that Apple sells, or some cheap third-party knock-off Lightning-to-USB adapter. Anyway, I thought I should mention it to you in case there's any relevance to the problem you've been having.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline vbdx66

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2017, 03:26:14 AM »
Hi everybody,

I am moving this topic to the new DGX board because of the original subject of the topic.

That said, the second half of the topic is more about the PSR EW400 / PSR E453 than about DGX keyboards, so maybe Michael would like to split the topic (if this is feasible) and move the second half to the board about the PSR E keyboards?

Best Regards,

Vinciane
Past keyboards: PSR E313, PSR E413, PSR E433, PSR S550, DGX 640, upright piano.
Now: DGX 650
 

Offline Tangerine

Re: Connecting an iPad air to a Yamaha DGX 650
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2017, 04:28:45 PM »
The Traktor cable did not work at all - the MIDI indicators in Sound Controller did not even flash which they did even after the app stopped working with the Apple camera connection cable but for some bizarre reason, the Apple camera connection cable worked beyond the 30s period when I tried it after the Traktor cable. Unfortunately, I am going away for a few days so I cannot do any further testing for a while.