Author Topic: Lowering the Volume of One Instrument in One Part of a Style  (Read 4300 times)

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skeezix

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Lowering the Volume of One Instrument in One Part of a Style
« on: October 31, 2012, 03:20:49 PM »
I can hear several instruments in the RHY2 part of some of my internal styles. RHY2 is used for the backbeat. One of the instruments is a snare and I think the drummer is trying to kill it or something 'cause it is, to me, annoyingly loud while the instruments (a "tick" and a "shhh") are barely audible. I would like to turn down the volume of the snare only. Is there a way I can do that on my P2K without affecting the other instruments in that part? I've gone through the tutorial but didn't see anything that would explain how to do this.

Again, I don't want to lower the volume of the entire part, just one instrument in that part.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 03:41:58 PM by skeezix »
 

Offline MBedesem

Re: Lowering the Volume of One Instrument in One Part of a Style
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2012, 05:02:30 PM »
skeezix:

I do not know any way to modify the volume of one drum instrument in a style in the instrument, but you can edit the rhythm part volume and other parameters in MixMaster, a midi and style editor. See: http://www.psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html

If you load the style and depress List View, you will see a set of sysex similar to these:

001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 08 08 07 03 F7  Channel# 9 , Part Mode = Drums
001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 08 09 07 02 F7  Channel# 10 , Part Mode = Drums
001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 30 24 05 0F F7  Ch 10 Drum Edit Note# 36 Reverb Send = 15
001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 30 2A 05 14 F7  Ch 10 Drum Edit Note# 42 Reverb Send = 20
001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 30 2E 05 14 F7  Ch 10 Drum Edit Note# 46 Reverb Send = 20
001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 30 2C 05 28 F7  Ch 10 Drum Edit Note# 44 Reverb Send = 40
001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 30 33 05 1E F7  Ch 10 Drum Edit Note# 51 Reverb Send = 30
001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 30 33 02 46 F7  Ch 10 Drum Edit Note# 51 Level = 70
001:1:0000            Sysex=F0 43 10 4C 30 2E 02 46 F7  Ch 10 Drum Edit Note# 46 Level = 70

If the notes you are interested in are listed (get the note number from the drum listing in the Drum Key Assignment List of the 2k data manual ( missing? See: http://download.yamaha.com/top/?site=europe.yamaha.com&language=en).  

To edit, right click the event. To insert if there is no event for that drum note, use the Insert PSR Control Command/ Drum Key Setup/ Instrument Volume to insert an event.

When done, Save the file to a new file name .

Hope that this is of some assistance.

Regards,

Michael

« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 05:03:32 PM by MBedesem »
Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 

skeezix

  • Guest
Re: Lowering the Volume of One Instrument in One Part of a Style
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 04:11:06 PM »
Thank you, I'll give that a go.
 

skeezix

  • Guest
Re: Lowering the Volume of One Instrument in One Part of a Style
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 06:01:59 PM »
Mike,

(If it would have been better to PM you with this, please let me know)

I installed MixMaster and followed the tips in your reply. Using ListView I located the Sysex portion. I found 13 of the Sysex commands containing references to Ch 10 Drum Edit Note numbers 36, 40, 42, 44, 46, 54, 70, and 82. Looking at the Drum Assignment List and the keyboard I found that note number 40 (Keyboard Note E2, Snare Tight) sounds closest to what I hear in the style I'm working with (Slow & Easy for the PSR 2000); however, in the actual style that note is much louder than when I just play it on the keyboard and it sounds like there is more than just E2 being activated.

So I see 2 Sysex commands for note 40 one of which is a level value 79. I right-clicked on that event (it's called an "event", right?), changed the value from 79 to 20, closed ListView and played the style. The volume of note number 40 did not change. I saved the file with a new name, then opened that file and played it. Again, no change in volume. Sounded exactly like the original style.

Was I on the right track in my attempt to lower the volume (level?) of note number 40 and if not, what direction should I take? This is kind of a big deal for me because note number 40 is irritatingly loud in ALL the styles I've tried.

The section on ListView in the manual says "If visible before a file is played, the List View will scroll with progress through the file." But the list doesn't scroll. I tried moving the sliders in the Mixer View while a file is playing but I don't hear any change. I can turn them all to zero and the playback is not affected. That leads me to believe something isn't right with my setup. Where should I look?

Thank you for your time and your help.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 08:06:23 PM by skeezix »
 

Offline MBedesem

Re: Lowering the Volume of One Instrument in One Part of a Style
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 06:59:49 AM »
Generally I check email more often than the forum. You can use mpb@Sover.net.

The version on the website does not update live edits properly. Thank you for the report!

First use Start/Control Panel/Programs to remove your existing version then download http://psrtutorial.com/MB/zips/MixMaster462B.msi and double click the file to install.

But you will find that drum edits do not work when the file is played on the PC. The edited style must be loaded into the instrument; this programs the drum section in the internal style player according to the drum edit sysex.

I have attached before-after samples using a T2 style.

Let me know how you make out.

Regards,

Michael

Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 

skeezix

  • Guest
Re: Lowering the Volume of One Instrument in One Part of a Style
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2012, 04:49:25 PM »
Sorry for forgetting to reply. Your utilities let me peek inside a midi file and see what a midi file looks like. I became really curious about the structure and format of midi and style files and figured it was time I became familiar with how midis are constructed. Maybe then I won't have to ask so many questions in the forum.

I followed your instructions and was able to reduce the volume of one of the instruments in the drum part (channel/part/section/instrument/voice??? - I'll get them all straight one of these days) of the style (channel 10, I believe). Thanks for the help!
 

Offline MBedesem

Re: Lowering the Volume of One Instrument in One Part of a Style
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 05:19:01 PM »
Midi is always made out to be more of a mystery than it is. Even I get bewildered when I try to read the Midi Spec or some of the tutorials on the web.

If you look at a file in a programs such as MixMaster, almost all the commands for Yamaha are fully translated into "almost-english'. You can see where the voices are specified, what the DSP settings are and what they do, the characteristics of a note, etc. The commands are all in order that they will be executed in the file so you can see when something happens. What can be bewildering is that there are so many commands. That is because each command (not ture for all sysex) is kept simple so it can occur along with notes and not delay the sound. 

Writing Midi commands was never intended to be the way musicians made music. It was a way of transcribing it and being able to edit it in a fast and flexible manner. Considering they 'invented' the midi standard in the early 80's (I purchased the very first commercial synth offering midi- the Roland Jupiter 6 in 83-4), it has lasted a long time and still (thanks to sound engines such as offered by Yamaha synths/arrangers) has a place these many years later. There are not many 'computer standards' that have survived and maintained capability over that period. 

I am not encouraging all musicians to attempt midi. If you can fix your file using the PSR or programs such as PSRUTI, most of Jorgen's software, MidiPlayer, etc, then it will be faster and less prone to mistakes. But If you want to do something different, see what is 'under the hood' of a great midi song, or what you can do with the technology, then you should not be bewildered by what once was a wall of complexity. It really is not there anymore.

And there are more than a few people on this site that can help when needed.

Regards,

Michael


 

 
Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5